Hellenic standard gauge railway network

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gertjan_duivesteijn
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Hellenic standard gauge railway network

Δημοσίευσηαπό gertjan_duivesteijn » 05 Απρ 2009, 14:37

International traffic 1960

Hi hello,
I am a Dutch railway enthousiast with special interest in international traffic in the fifties and sixties.
In those years there were international trains running from the Netherlands and Germany to Greece/ Athens and back.
For example the "Austria Express" D251/252 Hoek van Holland (NL) - Athens and "Tauern Express"
In this train there were Greek and also Jugoslavian coaches running from Hoek van Holland and Köln to Athens.
Is there anybody who can inform me about the types of coaches in this/these trains?
Are there any H0 models made/available?

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International traffic 1960

Δημοσίευσηαπό Γιάννης Λύκος » 07 Απρ 2009, 14:17

"gertjan_duivesteijn":27xizfh6 έγραψε:Hi hello,
I am a Dutch railway enthousiast with special interest in international traffic in the fifties and sixties.
In those years there were international trains running from the Netherlands and Germany to Greece/ Athens and back.
For example the "Austria Express" D251/252 Hoek van Holland (NL) - Athens and "Tauern Express"
In this train there were Greek and also Jugoslavian coaches running from Hoek van Holland and Köln to Athens.
Is there anybody who can inform me about the types of coaches in this/these trains?
Are there any H0 models made/available?


This is a good question. Myself I have frequently travelled during the 1960ies the longest part of the route you describe here, specifically between Köln Hbf. and Thessaloniki via former Yugoslavia, watching Tito's brigades working lazy in the corn field along the rail tracks.
Coaches from Hoek van Holland (NS) and Ostende (SNCB) joined in Köln to the route to the Balkans and in Beograd (JZ) or Nis (JZ) they were split again.
Most of the exotic 2nd class/couchette coaches were Italian-built (FS) Breda together with West-German-built (DB) coaches.
Of course, everything from era III is available also as H0 model in exact (1:87) and reduced (1:100) scale by different manufacturers and with different lettering/numbering.
BTW: Nowadays I am travelling frequently between Schipol and Groningen with the NS InterCity.

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gertjan_duivesteijn
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International traffic 1960

Δημοσίευσηαπό gertjan_duivesteijn » 08 Απρ 2009, 21:21

Very interesting. Must be great memory's.
In my oppion is Schiphol - Groningen slightly different.
If you can inform me about the available H0 models I will be pleased.
I have been browsing the internet and can not find good models.
ACME recently released some OSE and JZ Italian build models but these are either early fifties era IIIa or era IV. Although anounced as era III the OSE models are era IV as far as the picturs can tel me. The OSE was not even founded in the early sixties.
The information from Balkanmodels could not satisfy me and Sachsenmodells only made era IV models.

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International traffic 1960

Δημοσίευσηαπό Γιάννης Λύκος » 14 Απρ 2009, 07:19

"gertjan_duivesteijn":3osx9zhz έγραψε:If you can inform me about the available H0 models I will be pleased.
I have been browsing the internet and can not find good models.
ACME recently released some OSE and JZ Italian build models but these are either early fifties era IIIa or era IV. Although anounced as era III the OSE models are era IV as far as the picturs can tel me. The OSE was not even founded in the early sixties.
The information from Balkanmodels could not satisfy me and Sachsenmodells only made era IV models.

At that time (central european era III) there was no OSE yet. Today's TRAINOSE is successor of OSE and before OSE was successor of SEK.
If we want to be precise, the ACME models should have SEK logo, numbering, lettering and classic destination plates.
On the mentioned route were used occasionally also CIWL waggons, sleepers, restaurant cars, baggage cars, etc.

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gertjan_duivesteijn
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International traffic 1960

Δημοσίευσηαπό gertjan_duivesteijn » 19 Απρ 2009, 12:55

Thank you again for your reaction.
So the ACME models are the right models but with wrong lettering.
A pity but an often seen problem with manufacturers.
I also have my doubts about the JZ models.
The ACME 50298 (AB) and 50275 (B) are anounced as era IIIa (before 1956) but the model 50278 (C) is anounced as an era III. Third class was Europ wide banned in 1956 so the 50278 must be a IIIa era model.
Again, we are never sure about the lettering.
I will e-mail ACME about the OSE models.
Greetings.

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International traffic 1960

Δημοσίευσηαπό Andreas » 19 Απρ 2009, 13:59

Hi,

indeed th ACME models represent era IV models and not III. I have written them I got an answer and I wrote them back with many information and details. Since then I have no answer. It is a pitty that these small companies produce highly interesting models in excellent quality but their comunication is crappy.

Cheers
Andreas
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gertjan_duivesteijn
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International traffic 1960

Δημοσίευσηαπό gertjan_duivesteijn » 20 Απρ 2009, 11:28

Hi Andreas,

It seems to me that you have some more information about those models.
Although era IV OSE, were these models in use in international traffic by the SEK/CEH in the fifties, early sixties?
If not, do you have information about de type of Greek coaches wich were in use in those years?

Greetings from a sunny Holland.

Gertjan

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International traffic 1960

Δημοσίευσηαπό Γιάννης Λύκος » 04 Μάιος 2009, 12:47

"gertjan_duivesteijn":1zewklvt έγραψε:Although era IV OSE, were these models in use in international traffic by the SEK/CEH in the fifties, early sixties?

Not to disappoint you, international traffic and domestic traffic was during that era a different story.
On the long-distance international routes from Hoek van Holland or Ostende or Calais to the southern Balkan were used vaggons primarily of central European origin and probably extra SEK/CEH vaggons were attached to the train only at the last etape of the journey between Thessaloniki and Athenes.
Maybe I am wrong, but I have to search for photos in my library.
Hint: watch the movie of Agatha Christie "Murder in the Orient Express" with Peter Ustinov to find out what other vintage rolling stock was used in the Balkan.

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International traffic 1960

Δημοσίευσηαπό gertjan_duivesteijn » 07 Μάιος 2009, 11:58

At least in the early sixties there were Greek coaches running from Hoek van Holland and Köln direct to Athens.
As there were JZ coaches running on the same route and in the same trains.
So I'am still wondering what type of coaches these were?

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International traffic 1960

Δημοσίευσηαπό Γιάννης Λύκος » 21 Ιούλ 2009, 11:25

"gertjan_duivesteijn":3dkshl5c έγραψε:At least in the early sixties there were Greek coaches running from Hoek van Holland and Köln direct to Athens.
As there were JZ coaches running on the same route and in the same trains.
So I'am still wondering what type of coaches these were?

Look in this link about old JZ coaches in H0 scale: http://www.naumann-online.de/artikelueber.php?wgruppeid=185&wgruppe_offen=139&wgruppenname=ac%20PWagen%20YU&sid=251c86ab97ce79d6e8f50fa49f1cdbc1

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Athens Laríssis

Δημοσίευσηαπό Outsider » 04 Νοέμ 2009, 16:30

How are the construction works proceeding at Athens central railway station? In April there seemed to be four tracks and three platforms in use and three new platforms under construction, still without tracks. What's the situation today, have the construction works already been completed?

There has also been some talk about a new central railway station between the current Larissis station and the old Peloponnese station, are there any concrete plans for that? The platforms and tracks now under construction are alongside the existing Lasissis station, anyway :roll:

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Athens Laríssis

Δημοσίευσηαπό BasilisG » 04 Νοέμ 2009, 23:51

How are the construction works proceeding at Athens central railway station?


The works are proceeding with the speed of light!!
:zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz:

:winner:
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Athens Laríssis

Δημοσίευσηαπό Outsider » 05 Νοέμ 2009, 11:57

"BasilisG":1q2prz6f έγραψε:
How are the construction works proceeding at Athens central railway station?

The works are proceeding with the speed of light!!

So, the five mid-platforms and ten (or eleven?) tracks are already in use? :lol22:

It shows up quite well in Google maps satellite image but is still far from completed. I don't know how old that imagenery is but if I recall correctly, the Sidirodromon street wasn't there in the middle of the platforms any more in April, otherwise it looks quite much the same.

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Athens Laríssis

Δημοσίευσηαπό Elias » 06 Νοέμ 2009, 07:14

"Outsider":2zc1t7u5 έγραψε:
"BasilisG":2zc1t7u5 έγραψε:
How are the construction works proceeding at Athens central railway station?

The works are proceeding with the speed of light!!

So, the five mid-platforms and ten (or eleven?) tracks are already in use? :lol22:

It shows up quite well in Google maps satellite image but is still far from completed. I don't know how old that imagenery is but if I recall correctly, the Sidirodromon street wasn't there in the middle of the platforms any more in April, otherwise it looks quite much the same.



Currently works are focused on the two new platforms (almost completed), in order to transfer traffic (four tracks) to these ones and start work on the old section, next to the building. This is not far from happening, though as VassilisG said, the works move really slowly...
Too old to Inter, too young to rail

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Athens Laríssis

Δημοσίευσηαπό Outsider » 08 Νοέμ 2009, 16:19

A bit off-topic but can anyone tell what is the station shown in this 15 year old photo http://vaunut.org/kuva/34983 ? The caption only says that it's in Athens but at least it does not look at all like Athens Larissis today.


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